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	<title>Comments for Reflections on China</title>
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	<description>Sociological Reflections on a Summer 2008 Trip to China</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on The One-Child Policy and Social Change by Larry Troy</title>
		<link>http://contexts.org/china/2008/06/16/the-one-child-policy-and-social-change/#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Troy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://contexts.org/china/?p=10#comment-11</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comment Frank.  Learning something about Chinese society and values was the reason I took the trip.  And many of the photos I took and posted to flickr were as a visual sociologist trying to capture the culture and society as I saw it.  Thanks for appreciating them in that light.  I'm moving on now to process the tourist shots I took, but I wanted to get the photos on seniors, children, gardens, the hutongs, and workers up first.  They were the expression of the sociologist in me.

I must say that the reading I did in Chinese history and culture before the trip was indispensible for preparing me for what I saw and learned once I got there.  The Chinese have a strong national pride, and are very aware, and proud, of their centuries-long history.  

Just beneath the surface is the comparison of today with life during the Cultural Revolution in the 1970s.  They seem to look upon that period of time in a similar fashion to the way we in the West look at the Depression of the 1930s.  "It was something out of our control, and people who survived went through really hard times that affected their values for the rest of their lives."  At least outwardly, they do not seem to blame particular people for those events (perhaps Madame Mao more than anyone).  (Regarding Chairman Mao and the Cultural Revolution, one woman told us, "Everyone's entitled to one mistake!")  They don't know the real history of this time, and want to forget the hardships and deaths, and are too busy marveling at the changes in their own country in the past 20-25 years.

Without a strong sense of democracy in their basic values, most Chinese seem to accept their national leaders, and trust the direction these leaders have taken with the economy and the resulting improvement of their lives.  In present-day China, most urbanites are living a far better life than their parents did, and conceive of their lives in that way.  (I keep recalling their saying, "Heaven is high and the Emperor is far away.") From that perspective, democracy seems both irrelevant and scary.  It seems to imply instabilty and unplanned change.  I think democracy will come to China, but it will be a very slow evolution, and when you're talking about a quarter or a fifth of the population of the whole planet, maybe that makes sense.  

On the other hand, there is quite a lot of political activism and suppressed dissent over many issues: religious and cultural freedom and worker rights are two of them.  Ultimately, Chinese leaders are dealing with these issues in an amazingly slow evolutionary process.  And for middle-class Chinese, that is OK with them.  For example, a sociologist at Fudan University told us that he preferred McCain to Obama, because he thought that Obama would pressure China on human rights and workers' rights, which he saw as detrimental to China's progress!  What would the workers say?  I think there would be a mixture of acceptance of one's fate, appreciation for the opportunity to work and make money at all, and a vague, disorganized wish that things could be better.  But they're not going to stick their neck out too far.

Someday, China will deal with its current repression and oppression of workers and minorities, and it will be interesting to see how they re-write their own history, but I don't expect to see it in my own lifetime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comment Frank.  Learning something about Chinese society and values was the reason I took the trip.  And many of the photos I took and posted to flickr were as a visual sociologist trying to capture the culture and society as I saw it.  Thanks for appreciating them in that light.  I&#8217;m moving on now to process the tourist shots I took, but I wanted to get the photos on seniors, children, gardens, the hutongs, and workers up first.  They were the expression of the sociologist in me.</p>
<p>I must say that the reading I did in Chinese history and culture before the trip was indispensible for preparing me for what I saw and learned once I got there.  The Chinese have a strong national pride, and are very aware, and proud, of their centuries-long history.  </p>
<p>Just beneath the surface is the comparison of today with life during the Cultural Revolution in the 1970s.  They seem to look upon that period of time in a similar fashion to the way we in the West look at the Depression of the 1930s.  &#8220;It was something out of our control, and people who survived went through really hard times that affected their values for the rest of their lives.&#8221;  At least outwardly, they do not seem to blame particular people for those events (perhaps Madame Mao more than anyone).  (Regarding Chairman Mao and the Cultural Revolution, one woman told us, &#8220;Everyone&#8217;s entitled to one mistake!&#8221;)  They don&#8217;t know the real history of this time, and want to forget the hardships and deaths, and are too busy marveling at the changes in their own country in the past 20-25 years.</p>
<p>Without a strong sense of democracy in their basic values, most Chinese seem to accept their national leaders, and trust the direction these leaders have taken with the economy and the resulting improvement of their lives.  In present-day China, most urbanites are living a far better life than their parents did, and conceive of their lives in that way.  (I keep recalling their saying, &#8220;Heaven is high and the Emperor is far away.&#8221;) From that perspective, democracy seems both irrelevant and scary.  It seems to imply instabilty and unplanned change.  I think democracy will come to China, but it will be a very slow evolution, and when you&#8217;re talking about a quarter or a fifth of the population of the whole planet, maybe that makes sense.  </p>
<p>On the other hand, there is quite a lot of political activism and suppressed dissent over many issues: religious and cultural freedom and worker rights are two of them.  Ultimately, Chinese leaders are dealing with these issues in an amazingly slow evolutionary process.  And for middle-class Chinese, that is OK with them.  For example, a sociologist at Fudan University told us that he preferred McCain to Obama, because he thought that Obama would pressure China on human rights and workers&#8217; rights, which he saw as detrimental to China&#8217;s progress!  What would the workers say?  I think there would be a mixture of acceptance of one&#8217;s fate, appreciation for the opportunity to work and make money at all, and a vague, disorganized wish that things could be better.  But they&#8217;re not going to stick their neck out too far.</p>
<p>Someday, China will deal with its current repression and oppression of workers and minorities, and it will be interesting to see how they re-write their own history, but I don&#8217;t expect to see it in my own lifetime.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The One-Child Policy and Social Change by Frank Mara</title>
		<link>http://contexts.org/china/2008/06/16/the-one-child-policy-and-social-change/#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Mara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 06:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://contexts.org/china/?p=10#comment-10</guid>
		<description>Hi Larry - I'm watching the Olympic Games and I went back to look at some of the photos from your China trip on Flickr.  I think one of the hardest things for us to understand is the intense sense of national identity the Chinese have.  As Americans, we have lots of issues with the Chinese Government and we look upon their country's economic growth with trepidation.  However, we don't fully understand Chinese society and values.  We need to, for both our national security and economic well-being.  Your photos provide a portal into Chinese society that we rarely get to see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Larry - I&#8217;m watching the Olympic Games and I went back to look at some of the photos from your China trip on Flickr.  I think one of the hardest things for us to understand is the intense sense of national identity the Chinese have.  As Americans, we have lots of issues with the Chinese Government and we look upon their country&#8217;s economic growth with trepidation.  However, we don&#8217;t fully understand Chinese society and values.  We need to, for both our national security and economic well-being.  Your photos provide a portal into Chinese society that we rarely get to see.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Workers in China by Alan Phillips</title>
		<link>http://contexts.org/china/2008/07/10/workers-in-china/#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Phillips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 01:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://contexts.org/china/?p=30#comment-9</guid>
		<description>Larry,

What a fascinating visual and ethnographic tour of the hutongs!  I wonder how many in the throngs of Olympic spectators will ever see this glimpse of Chinese life.  I was really intrigued by the historical context behind the spatial organization of these communities that survive today, even as industrialization encroaches on their boundaries.

Sincerely,

Alan G. Phillips, Jr.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry,</p>
<p>What a fascinating visual and ethnographic tour of the hutongs!  I wonder how many in the throngs of Olympic spectators will ever see this glimpse of Chinese life.  I was really intrigued by the historical context behind the spatial organization of these communities that survive today, even as industrialization encroaches on their boundaries.</p>
<p>Sincerely,</p>
<p>Alan G. Phillips, Jr.</p>
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